Get It?
I’ve dropped some hints here and there, but now it’s official. I got a new job and I’ll be going back to work on November 1st. After it’s all said and done, I will have taken a 3 month hiatus from work in order to recharge, build up some of my online businesses and just live life. It’s been a great few months but now it’s time to get back to work so that I can start paying off my fiancee’s rapidly accumulating debt.
A lot of people questioned my choice to leave my last job without first securing another one but I didn’t really see what the big deal was. In my circumstances, I think what I did was actually pretty reasonable. I also didn’t want to get stuck in San Diego, while my fiancee was in Orange County, waiting for the perfect offer to fall in my lap. During my initial job search, I applied for positions with several companies but wasn’t seeing a great response. Eventually though, I did receive an invite for an interview with one of the largest aerospace companies in Southern California but there was one slight problem.
Great Timing
The timing couldn’t have been worse since they scheduled my interview for the Saturday that I got back from my family vacation to Cabo. I literally had to rush home as soon as we landed, change my clothes and drive straight to my interview. I didn’t even have time to shower! Although I did get a nice complimentary 10 minute massage in the VIP lounge at Los Cabos(courtesy of my Chase Ink Bold card). I was pretty unprepared for the interview, I did about an hours worth of studying on the plane then I fell asleep.
I thought my interview went ok but I was hoping that my experience would speak for itself. I was extremely qualified for the position since I had four years experience and the minimum was 1-2. In fact, I just missed out on applying for the next highest level position since that would have required 5 years. About 2 weeks after my interview, I got an e-mail saying that I had been extended an offer!
The Offer
It was pretty strange how impersonal everything was with this company. Even my offer letter seemed like a standard template that was modified in only a few places like position title, name and salary. I had no idea who I would be working for, what I’d be working or even what department. The only person I’d been in contact with was an HR rep who worked at their corporate offices halfway across the country.
I was definitely happy to get the offer but I was a little disappointed to see that the salary was $4,000 less than what I made at my last company. In addition, they didn’t offer any type of bonus/gain sharing like my last company did so that made the offer even worse.
Salary Research
I wasn’t sure how negotiations would work with this company since I was really only dealing with one HR rep but I figured I’d give it a shot anyways. The first thing I did was go online and search job forums and see if anyone else had success negotiating with this company. This strategy might not work as well with smaller companies, but for the big ones there’s sure to be some other people who have posted their findings. The results were mixed though with some people able to negotiate slightly more salary or a small signing bonus but the majority of people had their counter-offers rejected(but they were still eventually hired).
I also called a buddy of mine who had recently accepted a position there but in a different field. My friend told me that he tried everything and they wouldn’t budge. He countered with more salary and they said no, he asked for more vacation and they said no and finally he inquired about some type of relocation or signing bonus and again they said no.
The Negotiation
I figured it couldn’t hurt to at least counter-offer with a higher salary and see what they said. Here was exactly what I said in my counter offer:
Thank you very much for offering me the position of Structural Engineer. I’m excited about the prospects of working at XXX and very impressed with the staff that I’ve already had the pleasure of meeting.
Before I accept the offer though, I have a question about the salary offer of $XX,000. Although competitive, I think a salary of $XX,000 is a little bit below what I had expected in terms of current market value for someone with my level of expertise. Considering I have four years of industry experience and past experience on XX programs, I’d like to ask if the salary offer could be increased to $XX,000 annually, a figure commensurate with my experience and equal to my former salary at XXX.
I thought my e-mail sounded pretty good to be honest and I didn’t think I was asking for much. I only asked for a salary increase of $4,000 to match my old salary but after 3 weeks, they came back with their counter-offer. It was the exact same salary as their original offer! Damnit, I lost this round.
Since I wasn’t quite ready to give up yet, I also sent another e-mail inquiring about more vacation time. They start new employees with 2 weeks and I already knew I was going to need at least 3 weeks this year alone with all the small trips I have planned and my wedding/honeymoon. This time I didn’t even make it past the HR rep since she told me their official policy does not allow them to negotiate vacation time.
What Did I Learn?
All along I was planning on accepting their original offer, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to ask for more money and more vacation. I think I’m still overpaid at my new lower salary but compared to my peers at other companies, I’m probably a little below average now. Either way, I think the reason why my negotiations failed in this case was because I had no one on my side. I made the mistake of not writing down who I had interviewed with so I didn’t get the chance to follow up with anyone. Eventually, I discovered that my hiring manager had been cc’d in one of the original e-mails but it wasn’t even the same person who interviewed with me.
I think this was a pretty unique situation since the company I’m going to work for is so big. Their hiring process was so informal that I don’t think my counter-offer ever really stood a chance. If I could do it again, I would make sure to get the names of everyone that I interviewed with and talk to them before I counter-offered. It would also have helped to e-mail my hiring manager before countering since then he/she could have been on my side too.
Ultimately, I am happy just to have a job but the next time I need to switch jobs there are a couple things I will do differently.
Readers, what do you think about my negotiation skills? Is there anything I could have done better, different, or would you have done pretty much the same?
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Yep, this is the problem with working for big companies. Did you specify that you needed specific time off for your wedding/honeymoon that you already have planned? I probably would have done that instead of just asking for 3 weeks.
Yea that’s exactly what I did but the HR rep told me their policy was they don’t negotiate vacation. Either way, I did CC my hiring manager in that e-mail so they know that I’m going to need time off.
It sounds like the company just doesn’t negotiate. The only thing you can do then is to accept or decline the offer. Hopefully you’ll get some nice raises or find another better position somewhere down the line if that’s what you truly want.
Yea I have a feeling that even if I did have a better/different offer it wouldn’t be worth much leverage-wise. I think they’d probably just go on to the next candidate haha.
Your email is an excellent example template. That’s a bummer they were so impersonal and not willing to budge. It’s not necessarily surprising. BUT I would say it’s sad to only get 2 weeks, especially if in your previous role you were getting more.
A year ago I moved to only having 2 weeks PTO, and my best friend has 5 weeks (including sick time). Its tough!
Thanks Todd, yea I’m a little upset at only getting 2 weeks but I guess I’d rather have a job with only two weeks pto than no job at all.
Hi Harry, The only thing I would have done differently is to tell them the things I wanted (salary and vacation) during the interview. But perhaps you did. I also ask for business cards from anyone I meet. Your email seems good to me, but as you found out, they had the prerogative to say No.
Yea those are both good ideas. I plan on being at this job for a while though so hopefully I won’t forget them by the time I need to interview again haha.
Harry I don’t think your negotiation skills were to blame. I would think that this is more common in certain industries and less in others. Is negotiating salary typical in engineering? Or does it vary by company?
Haha thanks Steve. I think it’s common in engineering but not to the extent that it is in other industries. Harder to distinguish yourself as an engineer than it is as a business type I think.
Am starting to think there is nothing you could really have done differently to improve either your salary or time off. One might think their policy is set in stone with all the unequivocal “NO’s!”
The good thing though is that you have learnt crucial lessons in negotiating and hopefully can unleash them, with time, in your current company or the next 🙂
Yea I think the only thing I could have done is get someone that works there on my side, next time I’ll know..
Wow, that kind of stinks about the vacation time and salary bit. I’d be much happier with a lower salary and more vacation time. I am in a weird place where I was offered three weeks via phone but didn’t require it in writing which hasn’t posed an issue yet but I also work at a place with a crap-ton of days off (Catholic high school).
My salary is low for my age as I am late to my career but regular for people for my salary so I think that’s part of the reason why my offers get accepted.
I know now that in spite of how desperate I am to leave a CRAZY boss (and I had a boss who was CRAZY), I need to get any offers in writing before I accept, just to be safe.
Yea I’d be happy with 3 weeks I think, after that it gets kind of expensive to take vacations if you’r vacationing 4-5 weeks out of the year haha. Definitely a good idea to get any type of offer in writing. I don’t even consider telling people I have the job until I’ve accepted their offer and got written confirmation.